Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5
2005.09
Higurashi no Nakasekata: How to make them cry
Part 3
This is the third part in a series of interviews that appeared in Toratsu (虎通), a magazine published by a famous doujin shop Tora no Ana (とらのあな).
Source: https://sai-zen-sen.jp/works/extras/higurashinonakasekata/03/01.html
Participants:
- Ryukishi07 (leader of 07th Expansion, scenario writer)
- Yatazakura (script)
- BT (homepage administration)
- Editor (Tora no Ana)
— This is the third installment of our “Higurashi no Nakaseikata” interview series with 07th Expansion, and since there were so many interviews about Higurashi, including ours, it’s a bit difficult to decide what to ask.
Ryukishi: I think the people who read Toratsu are all very knowledgeable, so it may be easier on the contrary. It’s not a magazine that people who just recently made their Akihabara debut would read *laughs*
Toratsu
A free magazine published by doujin shop Tora no Ana. You can get it at the store, by mail order or by subscription. However, as it contains information on works for adults, it is restricted to 18. It contains not only the introduction of the authors and their works but also interviews like this one. 【KEIYA】
— You have to come to Tora no Ana to get it, so the bar to read it is oddly high… I’m proud to say that this is the densest publication that contains interviews about Higurashi *laughs* Aside from that, as I do every time, let me ask you how you feel now that you’ve finished another Comiket?
Ryukishi: We’re only four months away from the end of summer, so we probably need to start preparing for winter soon? We’ve had a rough estimate of the schedule since the beginning of this year, and we know what month we have to start working… The truth is, we should already be in full battle mode by the second half of September… Yeah *laughs*
*07th Expansion members laugh bitterly*
Ryukishi: I don’t want to use that as an excuse, but we are starting a recording of a drama CD right now, and my schedule is pretty full with that… Well, you have to create your time yourself, so that’s not an excuse *laughs*
— How was everyone’s experience this summer, including Comiket?
Ryukishi: This time, we were pretty serious about mastering…
*Everyone laughs*
Ryukishi: …but after that, we had a lot of time on our hands. It was about the fourth week of July when we were doing master-up? Then we had two open weeks before Comiket, which was very strange. Up until now we always went from the bloodbath straight into Comiket… After the master-up, we had 48 hours to burn 200 discs, something like that. We’ve been living a life of going to Comiket without any sleep or rest *laughs*, so this was actually the first time we had time to properly submit our work for participating. Last time it wasn’t so because the deadline was pretty tight, so this time it was strange for us, but normal for a typical doujin circle Comiket *laughs*
— One of the things you’ve said in the first interview that was burned in my memory was “BT’s 7-disc duplicator” *laughs* BT-san, what can you say about that?
BT: Well, the duplicator didn’t have a role this time…
*Everyone laughs*
BT: I stayed at Yatagazakura-san’s place for debugging before mastering, so we did all the burning together.
— Are you in charge of debugging as well?
BT: Yes. I also make Music Rooms and other such stuff. In Meakashi-hen it was added in a patch later, but this time I decided to put it in during the mastering, so I stayed and created a Music Room before the master-up. I heard that there would be 5 or 6 additional songs at first *laughs*, so I went there thinking there would be 5 or 6 songs, but when Ryukishi-san and Yatazakura-san actually showed them to me, there were about 14 songs *laughs*
Ryukishi: It’s a matter of defining a what is a new song *laughs* Because I am listening to the new songs while I am writing Higurashi, they are not new songs for me, they just regular songs. So when I was asked by BT, “How many new songs do you have?”, I had four or five songs that I had recently received, so I replied, “Well, it’s about four or five songs, I guess” *laughs* For me, I’ve been listening to that songs all through several months of writing, so I’m already familiar with them. But actually, there were a bunch of new songs in there that I didn’t use last time, so when it came time to list them and I was told that there were 14 or 15 songs, I was like, “What! That many~?” *laughs* Things like that happen sometimes.
— Do you always listen to Higurashi music while you’re writing?
Ryukishi: Yes. Because I’ve been listening to the right song for the scene while I was writing, I can immediately tell which song is in which scene during the clean-up phase.
— I thought you were putting in songs at the clean-up stage.
Ryukishi: Of course, we sometimes suddenly insert new songs at the clean-up stage, but usually I write a scene while listening to a song which fits with it. Of course, there are places where there is no music at all, but if I am writing the first scene and can’t find a fitting song, even if it’s a placeholder, it feels like I can’t write at all.
— In the same state that we users are reading the text while playing the game, you are writing while listening to the same song.
Ryukishi: Right. So it’s often the case that there are only the cicadas singing all night long *laughs*, or the same MP3s are played all night long.
— Not only music but also cicadas? *Laughs*
Ryukishi: For me, the sound of cicadas is a part of the music, so they cry all night long, and on days off, they would be singing until dawn *laughs*
— It’s true that the sound of cicadas is listed as a proper song in the Music Room.
Ryukishi: In Higurashi, it’s a song.
BT: I really wanted to put cicadas in the Music Room, so I just threw it in.
— What is that higurashi sound?
Ryukishi: It started out as royalty-free material, but halfway through a musician with whom we had a relationship had recorded some great sounds for us. The “.wav” files are royalty-free versions and “.mp3” files are clearer versions recorded by the musicians. So if you listen carefully with headphones, I think the quality of cicadas.wav and cicadas.mp3 are very different.
— Is that starting this arc?
BT: No, starting Meakashi-hen.
Ryukishi: Due to Nscript’s function, we can’t play several mp3 files at the same time, but we can superimpose mp3 and wav files, so when we play the cicadas sound as a song, we use mp3 files, but when we are playing music and the cicadas start singing in the middle of the song, we have to use wav files. That’s why we only have two files for cicadas, an mp3 and a wav. Before, we used to only use cicadas.wav together with music, but now that we have higher quality mp3 files, we use both.
— Speaking of Nscript, how was your summer this year, Yatazakura-san?
Yatazakura: I wasn’t able to take off any time off at the end of the debugging, so I have been coming straight home in my work uniform and do the debugging.
Ryukishi: I happened to be passing by once during his lunch break on the job, and asked him if everything’s going well *Everyone laughs* That’s what the final stage is all about, isn’t it?
— It has already been a year since our first interview.
Everyone: Ahhh *sigh*
Ryukishi: It’s been that long? Long or short, but thankfully we’ve been able to make it through the year.
— So, how has the past year been for you? I think it’s been a pretty turbulent year for you.
Ryukishi: Well, for example, things that are moving in a big way right now — anime and consumer edition — are actually going on since last year. So the difference between last year and now is that those things actually started to move. It was hard to tell if it’s reality or a dream. It was the same with Drama CD last September: we were saying things like “Drama CD was a lie”, “They were just joking”, but then it started to materialize. The ultimate difference between a year ago and now is probably that we received a lot of different offers and at that time we were beyond skeptical; things that we thought were laughable became reality. My workload hasn’t actually changed much *laughs* It’s getting busier, but I’m getting used to taking more time off. I wasn’t used to scheduling my time before, so I was very unorganized, but now that I’m busier, I’m actually able to organize my schedule better, so it’s not as difficult as before. In short, I’ve gotten used to it.
Editor: You’ve talked about the drama CD in the first interview, but it’s been a year since then.
Ryukishi: I feel really nostalgic.
— You are already nostalgic?
Ryukishi: For me, this past year seems like just the other day… It feels like it was only two months ago. It’s partly because Higurashi no Naku Koro ni is a serialized product, so there’s no sense of seasonality to it, but I feel like it’s only been a couple of days since we released Meakashi-hen, and though Tsumihoroboshi-hen was actually just recently, I feel like it was a long time ago.
— I see.
Ryukishi: But when I get to writing, though, it feels like it was yesterday, the memories come flooding back and connect.
— What about you, Yatazakura-san?
Yatazakura: There were a lot of things going on, and before I knew it I was chasing master-up after master-up *laughs*, so I was running and running and running *laughs*
— So it was a year of running after all. BT-san, how was it for you?
BT: A lot of things changed, and the people around me changed as well.
— Perhaps quite a lot of things have happened to you since you began running the website.
BT: Yes. The flow of people has been completely different, and it seems that people of middle and high school age started visiting the website since the beginning of manga serialization.
— Is it possible that the atmosphere of the website itself has changed due to the influence of those who have been participating in it?
BT: I think so, yes.
Editor: The site has changed a lot. At first, the main content was in the center, then it stretched down to the bottom, and then the bottom filled up, and the content began to stretch up to the top *laughs*
BT: In the beginning, the site was designed to fit on one screen, but as the information grew, if we put too much information on the site, it becomes difficult to access the BBS quickly. I’ve got a lot of things tidied up, and in the end, it started to look the way it looks now *laughs*
Ryukishi: Once things have settled down to a certain extent, I think it’s best not to change anything else. Everyone is getting used to it.
BT: There are more and more announcements coming, so if I don’t be careful about it, the page will get longer and longer *laughs*
— I know it’s a bit early for that, but I’ve been doing interviews for this magazine, Toratsu, ever since the package of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni became available, and I’d like to ask you to stay with me until the completion of the remaining two Higurashi chapters.
Ryukishi: Thank you so much. But then I’ll have to tell you a lot more interesting stories *laughs*
— I’d really like to hear about your activities after everything is completed.
Ryukishi: That’s something I haven’t thought about at all, so, honestly, it’s a blank slate at this point. If there’s one thing I can say, it’s that our passion won’t go anywhere with the end of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni. I’m sure we’ll make something, but I can’t say what it will be yet. I’m willing to make anything, but that will depend on my passion at that moment. The easiest route to take would be to make another sound novel. We’ve established some know-how, and at least it’s more realistic than saying something like “The next 07th Expansion project is a fighting game!” *laughs*
— That would be quite interesting, though.
Ryukishi: Well, that’s a joke… after all, we are, in a sense, a circle without a programmer.
Yatazakura: Right.
Ryukishi: But since both BT and Yatagazakura are working on the script, I guess they can be called programmers? Hmmm, I’m not really sure what a programmer is, but I guess that it’s the same thing as a scripter? If we were going to make some game at home, could we do it?
BT: Well, if you ask me I’d say we couldn’t. We are at a DIY level after all.
Ryukishi: That’s why we can’t make anything that we can’t make, and even if I say something like “I want to make an RPG that will beat *inal *antasy!”…
Yatazakura: Not happening~
*Everyone laughs*
Ryukishi: All I could say after that is, “Sorry, it’s all my fault”.
BT: Well, then, we’ll have to go to RPG Tsukuru.
*Everyone laughs*
Ryukishi: …So, we’re going to make what we can make at that time. I still think the most realistic way to do it is with a novel. We’ve gained some experience, and we don’t want to throw it all away. It just depends on what we would want to make at the time. Lately, when I’m not busy, I sometimes think about what I’m going to make when Higurashi is over… well, I have no idea! *Laughs* Mostly just influenced by movies and video games I’ve seen recently.
— We’d like to continue with this project, Higurashi no Nakasekata, based on the future developments, and I’d like to ask you to make an appointment a year in advance *everyone laughs* I hope for your support.
— OK, let’ talk again about the actual game. You’ve started with a music box track this time?
Ryukishi: It was “celesta”, wasn’t it? Hmmm… BT-san, do you recall?
BT: Ah, no, I can’t remember.
Ryukishi: I think the mp3 file’s name was “03 celesta”… Sorry, the name of the file comes up before the name of the song *laughs* But yes, the opening, which begins with Rena’s recollections, is rather an afterthought. It was added after about 60 or 70 percent of the scenario was done. At first, it was meant to start with a water gun fight. I’ve been working on an opening scene since Meakashi-hen, but the actual opening was made rather late in the game. At first, I started writing with the water gun scene, and just about halfway through the scenario, when I was making a scene with Rena’s reminiscence, or rather, confession, I came up with the idea of an inversion of the opening scene. That was just my way of presenting the story this time, as I want it to be different each time.
“03 celesta”
The exact name of the file is “03_CELE.MP3”. The title of the song that appears in the Music Room is “daily passing by(celesta)”. The composer is zts. There is also another version with drums and other instruments, called “daily_passing_by”.【KEIYA】
— Last time you talked about your method of getting new music that you called “The Festival System”. Do you use it this time as well?
Ryukishi: This time we again used some of the music posted on mixi. Also, if you’re a fan of dai’s music, I’m sure you’re familiar with the fact that I’ve included a song that he had already written in the past… So strictly speaking it’s not a new song? Rather, after listening to the “thanks/you” CD, I thought, “I want to use this song~”.
*Everybody laughs*
Ryukishi: I was wondering if I could ask dai-san to use the songs from “thanks/you” *laughs*
— That “thanks/you” CD is sold at Tora no Ana…
Ryukishi: I’ve heard people saying that it’s so good they couldn’t believe it’s someone’s debut work.
— …It sold out so quickly and I wanted one too, but I couldn’t get it.
Ryukishi: Dai-san is still a very young creator, and I think that’s why he is able to express his honest emotions in his music, and that’s why the music is so great. Of course, not only dai-san, but also the other music creators are really wonderful, and there’s a lot of music from people other than dai-san this time as well.
— I listened to a whole bunch of songs in the Music Room, and dai-san had a lot of piano music there…
Ryukishi: They are really good.
— For me, Higurashi music has become associated with dai-san, those piano songs with a bit of sentimental feel to them.
Ryukishi: Right. The opening and ending of Meakashi-hen were completely unified with dai’s “thanks/you”, and Kai especially has a very strong image of piano music. Maybe that impression is even stronger because of the tragic ending of Mekashi-hen. In that sense, I decided to betray everyone’s expectations and use ZERO this time…
ZERO
The song title displayed in the Music Room is “Z-E-R-O”. The composer is Rengoku Kozou (煉獄小僧). The song has a rock feel with electric guitar and drums. It was used in the staff roll played after Keiichi’s declaration of victory.【KEIYA】
— Yes! That’s what I wanted to ask you about. We came in with the image of “thanks/you” all the way through, and at the very end, at the ending, the music suddenly turned upside down… It had a dynamic or breaking through feeling to it, and it wasn’t like Higurashi at all, so it just caught me by surprise… That was a feeling of “I did it! I did it!” or something like that?
Ryukishi: Well. Last time we went in a, and that might sound cheeky, tearjerker style, so this time we decided to go in the opposite direction. As I probably said that in our last interview, “The next one is totally different. It’s an action”.
— I actually used that phrase in the announcement for this month’s issue (Toratsu’s October issue) for the Tsumihoroboshi-hen and when I actually played it myself I realized that it really was an action.
Ryukishi: At the time of that last interview, I already had an image in my head of the two fighting and punching each other at night on top of the school building.
— So, is it OK to call this arc “chapter of Rena” as you’ve told us last time?
Ryukishi: Yes, that’s right. It’s a story about Rena, but it’s actually more accurate to call it “chapter of Rena and Keiichi”. I think Keiichi has become a lot more like the protagonist in this episode. Maybe not the protagonist … I guess it’s more accurate to say he’s become more like a hero.
— Up until now, Rena was quite a mysterious character. However, in this arc, she gave me the impression of a “normal girl”. I thought she might be the most normal girl-like character in Higurashi, including her slightly cunning part.
Ryukishi: She’s an ordinary girl.
— In some sense, that’s realistic. She has lines like “A girl needs to be liked by everyone”, and a “fluffy and a bit out of place” personality, but really it’s all just fake to cheer herself up…
Ryukishi: Yeah, rather than fake, it’s “the person she wants to be”. She wants to be like this, sho she’s doing her best to act that way. Fake is all about deception and lying, but Rena isn’t like that.
— A very mysterious character was actually a surprisingly “normal” person… I think that gap is very interesting.
Ryukishi: I think that’s also going to be written at the beginning of Minagoroshi-hen, but up until now, if you thought the Sonozaki family was at the center of all, that’s is already settled. At the end of Meakashi-hen and Tatarigoroshi-hen you can see that the Sonozaki family is not actually doing anything behind the scenes, they are just acting pretentious. The part of the Question Arcs that many people thought was a Black Box was actually empty when it was opened up. Rena is similar to that in some ways. I call it “Kai” (“solution”), so I’m in the middle of making all the suspicious elements disappear one by one. So there was once a theory that there was something riding on Rena, or that there was another Oyashiro-sama-like personality in addition to Ryugu Rena with a dual personality, but maybe one answer to that is that this time Rena was just a normal girl. So there was once a theory that there was something possessing Rena, or that there was another Oyashiro-sama-like personality in addition to Rena with her dual personality, but maybe an answer to that is the fact that this time Rena was just a normal girl. Kai consists of Answer Arcs to all four previous episodes, so this it’s not like this is the final answer. It’s not really finished until you’ve read the whole thing.
Editor: I’m sure there are a lot of people out there who are getting frustrated and wondering if it’s the end this time or the next.
— I am still suspicious about whether it will keep going as it is, or whether we’re going to have a second or third sudden turn of events.
Ryukishi: People expect me to give you a final answer in one episode *laughs*, but it’s a serialized work after all.
— After all, everyone just wants answers as soon as possible *laughs*
Ryukishi: Yeah~ We’ve got a lot of emails that asked if the latest scenario is the final answer to Onikakushi-hen. It’s not. In the end, even though Meakashi-hen is Watanagashi-hen reversed, it’s not a completely final answer to it. They have the same worldview, but Meakashi-hen only gave the answer to the question “is Sonozaki family acting behind the scenes”, not all of Watanagashi-hen. That’s why it’s better to think of it as a serialized product and to look forward to the next chapter. However, the big part of the answers everyone is waiting for will actually be revealed in Minagoroshi-hen. 70%? 80%? Maybe even 90%?
Yatazakura: Yes, something like that.
— So is it too early to feel convinced this time around?
Yatazakura: We didn’t touch the Great Hinamizawa Disaster yet.
Ryukishi: There is still a lot of mysteries yet uncovered.
Editor: The striking psychological horror, the mistrust towards friends, and the inexplicable death of the main character. All that mysteries of Onikakushi-hen may have been just a misunderstanding of the protagonist. If that’s the case, I wonder where the answers to the other mysteries of Higurashi, which were not even answered by Tsumihoroboshi-hen, lie. The biggest question that remains is: “what exactly is the mystery of Higurashi?”.
Ryukishi: I probably answered that in some other place just recently, but in Minagoroshi-hen there will be a big sudden reveal in the very beginning. Even before the title screen. Those of you who enjoy Higurashi as a mystery might want to write down your answers in a note or something before you start reading Minagoroshi-hen, rather than after you’ve finished it. There is a huge answer within the first five minutes. Or rather, it would suddenly start with an explanation of the structure and formula of its world.
— After reading the last scenario, I’ve come to the conclusion that Higurashi no Naku Koro ni is a story about the darker side of people’s minds.
Ryukishi: I think this is a very accurate assessment of the story to make after you’ve read Tsumihoroboshi-hen, but after Meakashi-hen, some people thought it was a story of sadness and sorrow over a misunderstanding, so maybe you’ll have a different opinion after the next scenario *laughs*
— I guess that means it’s too early to make any final impressions.
Ryukishi: Well, each scenario has a clear theme, so there’s nothing wrong with that at this point in time.
— By the way, I think this is the first time we’ve ever seen a certain girl standing by the window looking at the clouds. She is….
Ryukishi: That’s, frankly speaking… *thinking* …Hmm, maybe to say so would be too frank.
— In that case, we can just hide it in publication…
Ryukishi: That’s…
— After all, I’d prefer not to know. Let’s stop.
*Everyone laughs*
— I don’t want it to be spoiled, and besides that, a lot of people said that there were too many obscured areas in the previous interview…
Ryukishi: That’s right. It’s an episode with Rika. I won’t say the next one is the Rika arc, but there are quite a few more scenes that touch on her, and I think we can talk about her surroundings, her daily life, what she thinks about and what she is interested in. If this is the chapter we explored Rena, then next time we’ll be able to talk about Rika quite a bit more. It’s not necessarily true that Rika will become the main character, but it’s going to be a very in-depth story about her.
— Mion, Satoko, Rena, and then Rika. I wondered if we are getting closer to the core characters.
Ryukishi: Basically, the world inside the story is very small, and it ends up being about five good friends, with Keiichi at the center. The darker story of Rena and Keiichi was also revealed in this episode, so the only other missing link that hasn’t been fully revealed is Rika, who was initially thought to be rather unimportant. To solve the mystery of the small world of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni, we must first unveil Rika.
Editor: In the beginning, Rika’s position was more of a “doll”.
Ryukishi: Right. She was like a mascot character with very little presence. People were mainly keeping attention to Rena because she is such a mysterious character, or to Mion because she is Sonozaki… But when you take a closer look to her, she is surprisingly incompetent *laughs* Rena is also much more normal then you’ve been imagining, and Satoko is pretty weak despite acting tough. So what about Rika, who is like a doll and who usually just out there smiling? It may be fun to ask you that question *laughs* After Rena’s story, all that’s left is Rika, and what she’s like, which I think will be a focus for chapter 7. If that was chapter 8, then Rika would just end up being the mastermind.*Everyone laughs*
— So, next one will be a climax just before the ending.
Ryukishi: Yes. I quite like the second half this time, though *laughs*
— By “this time” you mean?..
Ryukishi: Minagoroshi-hen. I quite like the last part of it.
— You’ve said that Tsumihoroboshi-hen is not a “reversed” story like Meakashi-hen was, but in a way, it’s like the roles of the characters in Onikakushi-hen were swapped, right?
Ryukishi: I guess it’s something like a mixture of Onikakushi‘s plot and Tatarigoroshi‘s atmosphere, plus the main character was changed?.. So, it’s not as strictly linked together as Watanagashi and Meakashi.
— However, in the end Keiichi and Rena both kill the same person.
Ryukishi: Until now, we’ve been looking at it from Keiichi’s subjective point of view as a murderer, but this time Keiichi is looking at it from an objective point of view. I think Rena’s way of thinking is extremely comical because you could see all her misunderstandings. When you don’t understand it, it’s a mystery, but when you do, you see how stupid it is, and because of that I used a catchphrase “It’s a comedy”.
— The scene where Keiichi kills Houjo Teppei is extremely intense, but Rena does it so easy.
Ryukishi: It’s the difference between how they think. Even though Keiichi has gone so far as to think that he has to kill Teppei for Satoko’s sake, he still can’t get to the point of killing someone without stimulating himself with adrenaline. But Rena is different, and if she is desperate and concludes that she has no choice but to kill, she can easily do it. She is calm during Teppei’s murder, but that’s easy for her only because she thinks that she has no choice but to do it.
— Maybe I am biased, but for me, the way you depict women is very realistic.
Ryukishi: Rena is a smart girl. She’s also very witty and can pretend she’s not looking.
— In Onikakushi-hen, there is a scene where Rena tries to enter Keiichi’s house, and he slams her fingers with a door. I thought that if there were choices in Higurashi, I’d like to try to let Rena in even if there was a possibility that she would kill Keiichi and that would lead to a game over. Ah, that’s off-topic, by the way, but last time when I asked you about who you’d like to have as a girlfriend or a wife, you answered Mion for a girlfriend and Satoko for a wife. I’m definitely choosing Rena.
Ryukishi: Maybe if Keiichi opened the door, he could eat Rena’s delicious meal, and he would become full and realize what a stupid mistake he was about to make.
— In that scene in the rain I was thinking, “I feel sorry for her, I want to open the door for her. But she’s trying to trick me. It’s an act”. It was like turbulence, making you shake emotionally.
Ryukishi: It’s only now that can say: “How did I come up with that scene?”.
— However, “When I opened the door, there was Rena’s delicious meal” is a phrase that resonates even more sadly after reading up to Tsumihoroboshi-hen…
— I’d like to change the subject a little, but I think Takano-san’s extensive knowledge was the key this time, or rather, that was something that confused the readers… In your works, especially in the TIPS, how do you insert information about folklore and psychology?
Ryukishi: I’ve never done any serious study of folklore, so it was more like summer homework. If you become interested in violent tales of some region you probably will do the same level of research. If you’re a real folklorist, though, you’ll think it’s all a real mess.
— Did you find a lot of material?
Ryukishi: These days, the Internet is so widespread that you can find out as much as you want about the atmosphere alone. I am interested in psychology and had read some books about it, so I was able to write about it easily. So, even if some professor in that field reads that, I don’t think they will find any major errors, even though some of the words may be used incorrectly.
— Earlier we talked about the theme of the game, but do you have an overall theme or message in mind for Higurashi?
Ryukishi: It’s been there since the beginning. From the time we’ve decided on the eight chapters structure, I knew that this was a particular kind of story. I can’t say that at this point in time, though, because you’ll pretty much see a direction of episode 7 and 8. Perhaps, if you could raise a few keywords now, I’m sure there will be right ones among them, but the theme of the story is starting to emerge little by little, even if it’s vague.
— I think there are two aspects to your work: the first is that it’s fun and entertaining to read, and the second is that there’s a message that you are trying to tell through the story. What do you think is the ratio of the former and the latter in Higurashi? Is it a work for entertainment or is it a message?
Ryukishi: It’s all about entertainment, after all. Higurashi is entertainment, it’s not something Ministry of Education would recommend, you know. So it’s all about having fun.However, if even one of the messages I am attempting to convey will go through while you enjoying it, it will be the greatest pleasure for me. Basically, it’s entertainment. And after all, you can learn about the horrors of war while playing Commando *laughs*
Commando
A game by Capcom released in 1985. The original Japanese title is Senjo no Ookami (Wolf of War).
— On the other hand, it’s not 100% entertainment and there are also themes that run through the bottom line.
Ryukishi: Yes. I think it soon will be time for me to get away from the constraints of “mystery and horror” as a genre. It was a given from the beginning, but Higurashi was always going to be entertainment. It’s just that there are elements of mystery and horror in entertainment, but that doesn’t mean that’s there is nothing else there. Just as the club activity scenes are simply fun, I thought it should be a work that makes you enjoy joy, anger, sorrow, and sadness, all the emotions. Occasionally I get the comments that say that the story stopped being scary after Mekashi-hen, but that’s because Higurashi isn’t just a scary story to begin with.
— Whereas the earlier scenarios were heavily leaning towards entertainment, I feel like it’s becoming more thematic starting the last one.
Ryukishi: I think being thematic is a specific trait of Kai. While the first four arcs definitely had themes hidden in the back, the priority was on the entertainment value, on the scary and mysterious. Since the beginning of Kai, the themes have been appealing little by little, and I think people are starting to feel messages more strongly after Meakashi-hen. If you can feel it even more when the story is finished, that would be great.
Ryukishi: I often get asked “What’s the solution to Higurashi?”, but… Not to say that it’s a misunderstanding, but guessing who did it, where it was done, and what the murder weapon was isn’t the right way to go about in Higurashi no Naku Koro ni. Of course, if you can deduce that, that’s great too, but that’s not everything. Higurashi no Naku Koro ni is a work with many different scenarios, and the truth can only be understood by layering them on top of each other. I may have told you this before, but this world is a game board. It’s the world where there are various groups of people and pieces that have been assigned to different roles and move according to them. So finding out the rules and laws of the game board is actually the right thing to play it. For example, the cause of Tomitake’s death can’t be determined if the main character is an ordinary student. If the purpose of the game was to deduce that, then the main character should be set up as someone from the police or forensics. But the protagonist is a student, and no information is given regarding the cause of Tomitake’s death. So it’s very difficult to deduce anything about it. So instead of seeking the cause of death, it would be better to seek the fundamental rules of this world… We’ve had six chapters so far, so you should start to see that rules. By exposing the rules, you should realise what’s the goal of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni. That’s what I really wanted to do with this game. The story of Higurashi no Naku Koro ni is a story about reaching a goal. It so happened that we’ve announced that it’s going to end in eight episodes, so you all know when it’s going to end, but if we didn’t say that, many people wouldn’t know when it’s going to be finished. Onikakushi, Watanagashi, Tatarigoroshi… It’s an extreme argument, but we could produce as many of those tragedies as we wanted. It’s a game board world, like an RPG. However, if it ends after eight episodes, then this world is going to end for some reason… There is an endpoint or a goal. Why does it have to end after the eighth episode? That doesn’t mean that the number 8 is meaningful, it means that there is an end to that world. When you start to see what the conditions for the end of the world are, when you take the laws of the Higurashi no Naku Koro ni game board and put them on top of all the scenarios, you should be able to see some of the elements that are preventing this world from reaching its goal. Then…hmmm…if I tell you any more, though, you’ll enter the world of Minagoroshi-hen.
Editor: I guess so.
Ryukishi: Hmmm, a hint: …if I say that, you will be able to give an instant answer.
— No instant answers, please *laughs*
Ryukishi: Speaking vaguely, it’s a story about trying to figure that out. It’s not about exposing the killer/trick/alibis, as is often the case with common mystery novels. What you need to figure out is that you should lay all of those scenarios on top of each other, and the way to get closer to the solution is to watch out what elements are there or aren’t there in each separate scenario, like you would shoot a torpedo in an invisible opponent’s battleship in a board game. When you do that, what the detectives of a typical mystery novel can never deduce, becomes possible in the world of Higurashi. To give you a familiar example, here’s a girl and the main character, a boy, tries to ask her out on a date. When the boy asks, “Do you want to go see a movie next Sunday?”, the girl answers, “I’m sorry. I have to work that day”. At this point, our protagonist thinks she has no choice because she has to work on Sunday, right? That’s the first scenario. In the next scenario, the boys asks, “Would you like to go out to dinner this Sunday?”, and the girl again says that she has to work. But then, in the next scenario, he asked her if she wanted to go to the aquarium this Sunday, and the girl says “OK”. The protagonist in that world may just feel lucky to get a date, but from the perspective of an observer who has seen all three scenarios, it would be like, “Doesn’t this girl have to work on Sunday?”, and you can deduce the answer to this question. Higurashi is a world that makes this kind of reasoning possible. And when you examine this girl’s scenario closely, the background emerges that this girl actually doesn’t like this boy very much, but she likes the aquarium. The truth is, she doesn’t have a job on Sunday and saying that is just a way to turn down a date. By putting the aquarium on one side of the scale, we make it lean towards the possibility of going on a date, but the girl doesn’t have any plans for this Sunday anyway. If the girl is a suspect in something, then the solution is that she doesn’t have an alibi for Sunday, right? This is the kind of reasoning that can only come from the multi-layered world of Higurashi, and that’s something that a so-called great detective can’t do. If the detective in a typical mystery novel wanted to make sure the girl didn’t have anything to do on Sunday, he’d have to snoop in her notebook or follow her footsteps on that day. But in the multi-layered world of Higurashi, players can deduce that from the gaps in the world. So any detective that exists in this world would say that she couldn’t have been at the crime scene because she had to work on Sunday. However, only the players say, “No, it’s a lie, she came when she was invited to the aquarium, so she shouldn’t have an alibi on Sunday”. …In Tsumihoroboshi-hen, Rika mentions God’s point of view, and this is the hint for the players who have observed different scenarios to look at it from the God’s point of view and derive the truth from that. So it’s actually not surprising that we don’t understand what’s going on if we look at just one scenario. Higurashi wasn’t made in such a way that you can answer the question by looking at an individual scenario. When you think about it in this way, it’s easy to see that Keiichi is not a murderer. In Onikakushi-hen, he did indeed kill his friends because he was suspicious of them, but if that was inevitable, Keiichi would have to be killing his friends in all the other scenarios as well. However, up to this point, Keiichi has only killed his friends in Onikakushi-hen. It’s the same with Rena. She only attacks her friends in Tsumihoroboshi-hen. Even Shion is a very normal student who only goes wild in Watanagashi-hen and Meakashi-hen. In other words, it’s not fixed. When you think about it that way, I think you should be able to see a lot of factors that come into play. Nevertheless, the fact that Tomitake is always killed no matter how many chapters there are… should make those rules that control that world visible to you.
— Will we be able to see that structure in its entirety at the end of eight chapters?
Ryukishi: Not at the end of eight, but at about the seventh *laughs*
— So, at the beginning of the next arc, boom.
Ryukishi: It would be great if you were able to see everything by the end of Tatarigoroshi-hen. Since the Question Arcs ended, there is really no need to pile them up further after Meakashi-hen. Because it’s Answer Arcs, they contain special hints, special items that you can’t save *laughs* After all, this is Kai. Question Arcs is a mystery where you have to search for contradictions between the first four chapters, so I wanted players to superimpose those chapters on each other, but unfortunately, few of them were doing that at that point. Just realizing that is, in a way, highly correct.
Editor: After all, there are many cross-references between the scenarios?
Ryukishi: Yes. Many readers think that each chapter is a stand-alone story. That’s why I try to tell people in interviews, etc., that it’s all the same world. Because haven’t there been a lot of sound novels up until now where if you choose one option, the setting of the world itself changes?
— Ah, I see.
Ryukishi: That novels have left the impression that remains deep-rooted in people, so they think that in Higurashi, the worlds of Onikakushi and Watanagashi are entirely different. With those assumptions, the world of Higurashi can be complicated.
— In the very first interview, I think you said, “It’s about structure and laws”.
Ryukishi: That’s exactly what I’m talking about. I gave an answer at the very beginning *laughs*
— I thought the ending this time was quite happy compared to the previous ones, but there was another twist in the story (“Demon’s Script”). Is the story is going to be about the Great Hinamizawa Disaster next time?
Ryukishi: About that, too.
— “Too” *laughs*
Ryukishi: Of course, it won’t be just about the Hinamizawa disaster, but also about what happened on that day. …After all, the Great Hinamizawa Disaster is always depicted as an “after” story. Even Keiichi in Tatarigoroshi-hen wakes up after everything is over and comes back to the village. Now we will depict the very moment on the night of the Great Hinamizawa Disaster! …Can I say that? *laughs*
— I think, those who have read the “Demon’s Script” are very curious about that.
Ryukishi: So, you can think of the “Demon’s Script” as an announcement that the story will finally tell you about the Great Hinamizawa Disaster in the next arc, and also as a way of saying that there will be no happiness in the world unless the characters overcome their doubts and fears and defeat it. …Ah, I am giving away a lot of answers. If you’ve noticed the “structure” around there, you’re pretty close to the right answer. …Hmmm, that’s a pretty vague way of saying it.
— It’s quite difficult.
Ryuksihi: It might be. Those who just say, “It would be a happy ending if everyone got along and don’t fall into suspicion, and if all the villagers escape before the Great Hinamizawa Disaster struck! ♪”, in some sense are pretty close to the right answer. They are aware of the laws and the end goal of this world. This world only had bad endings up until now, and that means it won’t end until it has a good ending. …I’ve given a lot of hints.
— As you mentioned earlier, Minagoroshi-hen will suddenly have something great at the beginning.
Ryuksihi: Actually, I’m struggling. Each time I’m asked for at least one image from each company for introduction before the announcement, but this time…
Yatazakura: We really can’t show anything.
*Everyone laughs*
Ryukishi: There are screens that we can show, but they are totally boring without the main characters… This is really Answer Arcs, so you have to open the booklet with scissors before looking at it! *bitter laugh*
Editor: About 70% of Minagoroshi-hen is an opening, and the last 30% is the part you can’t talk? To the extent that you can answer that, can you tell us what it is all about?
Ryukishi: That 30% may just be supplemental… For example, if you find out in episode 7 who the culprit is, then the 8’th episode will tell the story of how the culprit was made. So, the simple keywords that everyone wants to know will be mostly given out in the 7’th episode. For example, if the murderer is Taro Yamada, the fact that the murderer is Taro Yamada will be mentioned in Episode 7, then in Episode 8, we can talk about how Taro Yamada was born and how he was driven to the point of killing people.
Editor: The story is so expansive, that I’m still curious about what you will say at the end.
Ryukishi: That’s already been decided, so I’m just going to write it all the way through.
— It’s already a usual question, but in the last interview, when I asked “What story is Tsumihoroboshi-hen?”, you’ve answered “Action”. So, can you describe Minagoroshi-hen in one or two words as well?
Ryukishi: Hmm, what can I say?..
— This interview will not be complete until you answer this question *laughs*
Ryukishi: Hmm, I want to find a keyword that will instantly transmit the flavor of the story, but… “Rika-chan is in trouble, falling down to 8th place?!”, I guess.
*Yatazakura and BT burst out laughing*
Yatazakura and BT: There you go… *laugh*
Ryukishi: Well, lately, Rika’s popularity has been on the decline. Sorry, just joking *laughs*
— Huh? Huh?
Ryukishi: Just joking. We~ll, the 7th place is occupied by Chie-sensei, so Rika has fallen from 6th to 8th place *laughs* Chie-sensei is glued to the 7th place strongly that even Satoshi couldn’t get into it…
The 7th place is occupied by Chie-sensei
You may know Chie Rumiko (知恵留美子), the teacher in charge of Keiichi and his friends. She is based on Ciel (シエル), a character from the TYPE-MOON doujin visual novel Tsukihime. After the various endings in Tsukihime, players can view a bonus corner called “Teach me! Ciel-sensei” (“Ciel” written here as 知得留), in which Ciel gives players information under the name of Ciel-sensei. This is where Chie-sensei of Higurashi comes from, and not only they share their love of curry, but she also looks just like Ciel’s sprite that was implemented halfway through the game.
It all started when a fan of Tsukihime, Ryuukishi07, had her appear in Higurashi as a secondary character (in the world of doujin, secondary characters based on other works are popular). What happened after that is mentioned in the Production Journal on the official site, in the August 22, 2006 entry “On the official recognition of secondary works”.
Chie-sensei sticking to the seventh place in the character popularity poll was because the original Ciel possesses the Conceptual Weapon called “The Seventh Holy Scripture” (第七聖典) and holds the seventh place in order in the Burial Agency (埋葬機関) to which she belongs. In the popularity polls of 07th Expansion, many fans cast their votes aimingfor a specific place for this character. Of course, the voters were also avid Tsukihime fans.
Who would have guessed that Chie-sensei, who was initiallycreatedas a parody character, would later become a regular and appear in other Higurashi products?【KEIYA】
BT: That’s a pretty dangerous statement.
Yatazakura: There is the possibility that someone will break in from outside of the ranks.
Ryukishi: But since Rika was so popular this time, I think she can be in the top 5, even if she can’t make the top 3.
BT: Maybe Shion will fall to the 8th place.
— Seems like I am listening to some delicate conversation…
Ryukishi: In fact, I am intentionally reducing the number of Shion’s appearings. She became a little too popular after Meakashi-hen, so I am going to make Sonozaki sisters appear less form now on *bitter laugh*
— It’s the opposite of the first half, right? You were pushing her forward before.
Ryukishi: That’s right, at first I thought the Sonosaki sisters weren’t popular, so I pushed them. And while we were pushing and pushing them in Meakashi-hen, they became so popular that got their own Sonosaki sisters’ only events. Even though ll heroines should be loved equally~
— So that’s how it is with the Sonozaki sisters now? *Pose of sinking the head with both hands*
Ryukishi: It’s like “Get out, everybody out! Especially you, Shion!” *laughs* Shion will also appear quite a bit next time, and they will be also many more other people. If possible, I’d like to increase the number of sprites for supporting characters. People like Keiichi’s father, who was around for a long time but never had a picture, or like Kameda.
Yatazakura: I want to see them *laughs*
Ryukishi: I’d like to increase the number of such supporting characters. After all, Teppei and Rina have sprites. If I could do something like that, that would be nice. It’s all about the time management *laughs* …So in a nutshell… what’s the keyword for the next scenario? I can’t think of anything at all. Maybe something like “all the answers in this world”.
Yatazakura: Like behind the scenes?
Ryukishi: No. It’s a scene itself. If I had to say it, it would probably be “the answers you’re expecting”.
— The fact that this is not just an “Answer arc” seems significant.
Ryukishi: But the level of “answerness” is quite high.
— I’m really curious about the title. The end of Tsumihoroboshi-hen was quite positive, and because the title of the next scenario was left out last time, I thought it would be directly connected to the name of Matsuribayashi-hen, but then the title “Minagoroshi-hen” it was revealed.
Ryukishi: In the past, no one said anything when the title was published, but it seems because of the way Tsumihoroboshi-hen ended, the title of Minagoroshi-hen is being discussed.
— Right.
Ryukishi: I’ll kill’em~ I’ll kill’em with pleasure~. After all, it’s Minagoroshi-hen (Massacre) *fearless laugh*
— Should we go with “I’ll kill’em” for the next keyword? *laughs*
Ryukishi: Let’s not *laughs* There should be a better keyword… Hmmm… If I simply say that it’s going to be about the Great Hinamizawa Disaster, people will think it’s going to end with the destruction of the village again…
Editor: Maybe “the answers you’re expecting” comes closest?
Ryukishi: Probably, yes. A lot of “culprit, crime scene, alibi” stuff, that everyone is waiting for, will make an appearance. However, that’s not what you really need to explore in the world of Higurashi. The truth is, the culprit is the part that you can’t dig into, the part that is “hard to deduce”. That one, as well as most of the things that are either deducible or undeducible, will be there. Well, not all of them, some of the key parts will be carried over to episode 8. So, for those of you who say “That’s not Answer Arcs at all!” after going through Meakashi and Tsumihoroboshi, this one will probably become that Answer Arc you’ve waited for.
— “An Answer Arc you’ve waited for” has a lot of implications, but it’s still not the true answer to Higurashi.
Ryukishi: As I said earlier, there has to be a law or goal for this world to end. In other words, the fact that the “culprit” part is solved in the seventh episode and not the final one, means that this world will not end even if the “culprit” part is solved. Knowing the name of the culprit is not such an important factor for the real goal of this world. The goal is more simple. I’m sure everyone already knows or is aware of it, but some of you may not recognize it until it’s actually written in the game.
— And everything, including this, will be over with 2006’s Matsuribayashi-hen.
Ryukishi: After the release of Matsuribayashi, the next will be the Winter Comiket, and of course it will be impossible to prepare a new work in four months, so I may release a bonus chapter. A so-called “plus disc”. If we were to make a new game, we would have to start everything from scratch again, so let’s say it would be another novel game, even if you put aside the scenario, we would have to completely rethink the backgrounds, illustrations, and music. It would be impossible to do quickly. So, in winter, I’m going to visit the world of Higurashi once again as a plus disc, say goodbye to this story, and then connect it to the next one. …Would be funny if, after saying all this, I will end up making “Return of Higurashi” or “Higurashi the 13th” or “Next Higurashi” or “True Higurashi”.
*Everyone laughs*
— We are going to continue with “Higurashi no Nakasekata” until the end of Higurashi no Naka Koro ni. After Matsuribayashi-hen is released, I’m going to ask you about your future plans, but for now, for Minagoroshi-hen, “The answers you’re expecting” and “I’ll kill a lot”, right? *laughs*
Ryukishi: Well, the title is Minagoroshi, after all *laughs*
— *Laughs* Thank you very much.
Rena-Rena Toshokan 